When governments are at war, it’s the people who suffer.

Here, its the same.

The Mac/Windows war rages on and it’s the users who suffer. In general competition is good and results in great innovations.

However, once new cool things have been created, standardization is required.

Thats where trouble begins.

For example, Microsoft and nearly all MP3 players can play WMA files (but can’t play anything downloaded from iTunes).

Similarly, iPods can’t play WMA or WMV files.

Another example: Apple creates bootcamp resulting in Microsoft dropping VirtualPC for Mac.

Yet another example: Apple buys KeyGrip from Macromedia and renames it to “Final Cut” and prompty drops the Windows version.

Also: look at USB flash drives.
pshhhh w/e
They are DOS FAT formatted (versus NTFS or HFS) because that’s the only real file system thats fully interoperable (read and write) between the two operating systems.

It’s obvious the war is on at the corporate level.

On the user level, we’re just trying to have fun.

Both are you are going to and must really kill each other!

Peace too!

I really don’t understand why you keep asking me if I read your article. Your article disucss the vaidity of the whole Apple vs MS battle. Let’s get something straight right now. There is no battle, I know that, you know that and anyone who has bit of common sense knows that. MS does not percive Apple as a direct competitor. Primarily, becasue Apple is a hardware company first and a software company second. Second, because Apple can not compete in the enterprise software space. Period, they can’t. The software and hardware + their support is just not good enough. Thye could do it if they wanted to, but it would cost them alot of money.

Jobs shots at MS during WWDC are cheap and do nothing to help Apple get more respect from anyone other than the already converted.

MS needs to do more than just disgust users, they have already done that. They have the upper hand. Third party software. Which really means alot to businesses. I’m not talking just Office. I’m talking about the back office stuff. Windows XP works perfectly for most business. Vista is not even on a good IT shops radar right now. Vista is a “maybe in 2008 we’ll look at it” topic for us. Windows Server 2003 is leaps and bounds better than any prior MS server software package, no need to get rid of that right now. So what is Apple going to offer? If I was going to look at anything for the back office it would be Linux first. As for the desktops? Running Windows in emulators? That just doesn’t scale well for large groups of users and creates complicated support scenarios.

As for the offer of discussing Apple’s Enterprise support problems, I’ll have to decline. I prefer to complain directly to Apple (which I do)

Thanks for the article, and for the little “back and forth” we had. Feel free to drop me a line. Keep up the great work.

You have got to be kidding. Apple orginally slated Lepoard for late 2006. It’s late according to Jobs own timeline. But you’ll argue it’s not to justify your own point. Either way it really doesn’t matter.

Actually, he said late 2006 to early 2007. I was present at the keynote address where he made this comment, which was widely quoted. So let’s get our facts correct, OK?

One more thing, while I appreciate your experiences, none of this has anything whatever to do with the article I wrote. That’s why I wondered if you ever bothered to read it.

If you do want to give me Apple versus MS/Dell/HP support war stories, however, I’d love to know. I’m sure you can find problems with all of them, and I expect Apple can do better in lots and lots of ways. And, if I can verify what you say, I’ll be happy to write about it in a future commentary. Are you game?

Peace,
Gene

“Then you know that I never discuss Leopard’s supposed shipping date, nor is the article about that shipping date. In any case, spring of 2007 can be regarded, depending on which month, as “early” in 2007. Depends on when it really happens, and that can be discussed when an actual date and time is mentioned and not before.”

You have got to be kidding. Apple orginally slated Lepoard for late 2006. It’s late according to Jobs own timeline. But you’ll argue it’s not to justify your own point. Either way it really doesn’t matter.

“You do know, by the way, that you can run Windows compatible on a Mac, and that has been true for years, even before there was such a thing as an Intel-based Mac. In fact I wrote my first book about Windows in 1995, on a Mac, using the SoftWindows emulator.”

I sure do, Gene I ran emulators on my Macs for years. It’s a pain. I was a Mac only guy for years until very recently. I championed Apple’s equipment in datacenters when the Xserves were first introduced. I still manage them day in an day out. I’ve installed tens of thousands of dollars worth of Mac equipment is offices with hundreds of Mac users. My opinons are based upon my experiences with very large Mac installations within large MS enterprises. I know them inside and out and I know how they operate. They are not looking to get away from MS and into Apple. Unfortunatly it’s easier to go from Apple to MS. We work very closely with Apple also. It’s very important to us to make sure we provide the best experience to all of our users, Mac or Windows.

There is also the question of support. Who provides business customers with better support options and better support? I know enough about both MS/Dell/HP support and Apple Enterpise support to objectivly answer that question, and you won’t like the answer.

I’m pretty sure I actually made my point Gene. And I did read your article. Leopard is also going to miss it’s orginal ship date which was late 2006 early 2007.

Then you know that I never discuss Leopard’s supposed shipping date, nor is the article about that shipping date. In any case, spring of 2007 can be regarded, depending on which month, as “early” in 2007. Depends on when it really happens, and that can be discussed when an actual date and time is mentioned and not before.

You do know, by the way, that you can run Windows compatible on a Mac, and that has been true for years, even before there was such a thing as an Intel-based Mac. In fact I wrote my first book about Windows in 1995, on a Mac, using the SoftWindows emulator.

So, yes, maybe you did read the article, but little of what you say seems to reflect that.

Peace,
Gene

I’m pretty sure I actually made my point Gene. And I did read your article. Leopard is also going to miss it’s orginal ship date which was late 2006 early 2007.

“On the long hall, if Microsoft doesn’t get its act together, more and more of its customers will look to other options, such as the Mac or Linux.” A very, very, very long haul perhaps.

Businesses run on More than MS OSes they run on Windows compatible software. Accounting software, HR software, payroll software, email servers. etc Business customers are more loyal to these products than they are to OSes. They won’t move off of MS OSes until they can move their most important customer facing appications. It’s that simple. Changing development platfroms for software makers is a huge, costly undertaking. Retooling, retraining…it’s very,very complex.

BTW, Nintendo is the only console maker who sells their hardware at a profit. It’s common place to make the money on the games and acessories. Sony led the loss charge.

Never say never, never say always. MS did indeed win the OS war of the 90’s and 00’s. There are signs that they may struggle to keep it in the 2010’s however.

Where MS used to be deemed the winner everytime, it is now seen to fail to deliver, to deliver complexity and instability, and to be the source of problems and costs, not solutions. If they can’t stop this process, then the OS wars wil become alive and well again…actually, the indicators will be lagging, and I for one firmly believe it has started. An example is the venemous nature of the defence of Windows that is being put up, after all they never even used to NEED to defend it’s position!.

Get over it Gene. The Vista beta is very usable, I use it. Have you? No. It’s a heck of a lot more usable than the OS X Public Beta.
The succesor to OS 8/9 was very late and Apple couldn’t ship anything or even decide what they were doing at the time.
OS X wasn’t even usable until 10.2

I’m so tired of this percived war, they is no war. Like it or not, MS won. Get over it. It’s just a computer Gene.

Too bad you actually didn’t read my article, because you will see that I don’t dispute the fact that Microsoft dominates the operating sytem wars, nor did I say that I am engaged in the Windows versus Mac OS flamewars.

More important: We are not discussing Apple’s history, or the history of the development path of Mac OS X, but where Windows Vista stands now, after Microsoft has thrown billions of dollars towards its development.

Is the beta usable? Yes. Will it be out on time? Obviously it is well past its original shipping date, and I’m sure it’ll ship some time in 2007, even if it’s not in January.

Now did you have a point to make here beyond confirming what I said?

Peace,
Gene

“Let’s deal with a few facts, my friend: Vista is late, Microsoft has had difficulty finishing it, is notorious for copying features from others and reports so far indicate the existing beta versions are quite unstable.

You following me so far?”

Get over it Gene. The Vista beta is very usable, I use it. Have you? No. It’s a heck of a lot more usable than the OS X Public Beta.
The succesor to OS 8/9 was very late and Apple couldn’t ship anything or even decide what they were doing at the time.
OS X wasn’t even usable until 10.2

I’m so tired of this percived war, they is no war. Like it or not, MS won. Get over it. It’s just a computer Gene.

” like when Jobs/Apple sued Gates/M$ back in the early 1990s”
Sorry, Jobs didn’t work at Apple in the early 1990s.

WordPerfect destroyed WordStar because it provided support to businesses. MS Word destroyed WordPerfect not because it was inherently superior, but because Microsoft leveraged it into the workplace along with its other goods and services.

I use Word as my principal word processor, but also use Pages (for my monthly personal newsletter) and Appleworks (for its database function, for my movie database). Word is a terrific program, bloat and all, but it became that way in part because Microsoft is a monopolist.

As is the case with all monopolists, hubris will out. The long slow decline has begun.

Thank you, JaneP.
(No relation! )

I disagree with the poster above who complained about Microsoft’s power in dictating standards. I remember back in the late 80s and early 90s when WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS was THE standard for word processing. Word was usable only because it seamlessly opened and saved WordPerfect 5.1 files. Gradually the focus shifted to Word not because of marketing or the size of the company, but because Word 5.1 (Mac), 6 (Windows) and later Word 97 and 98 were simply better products. Don’t start on Word 6 for Mac, yes it was a slow and ugly port from Windows, but was promptly patched to 6.01 and while still ugly, was stable and powerful while standardizing file format with the Windows version.

That Pages today is designed to work well to and from Word is not a compromise because of Microsoft’s corporate practices, but rather because after the word processor wars of the 80s and 90s, Word, more specifically Word for Windows is what the world uses to write.

I love Nisus Writer Express for Mac. It has a terrific interface and works the way I do. I use it for all of my personal writing. I also am a big fan of AppleWorks, which with the toolbar removed looks and feels exactly its ancestor MacWrite Pro. I even use AppleWorks for writing short stories and essays on my PC, but when its time to work, I ALWAYS use Microsoft Word. Even with file format compatibility, complex documents almost always require reformating if writen or read in another program. Of course, Word is actually quite nice these days if you take a few minutes to configure it for the way you work. I have it set up with one minimal toolbar and with all of the automatic lists and styles turned off.

Does Windows’ dominance of the marketplace hurt Apple or Mac users? Well it does only in those lousy websites who code only for Internet Explorer. Of course those websites hurt many PC users too. I use Firefox on both my Macs and my PCs and poorly written websites stop both in their tracks, but fortunately that rarely interferes with what I’m doing. Otherwise, I think Apple has done a wonderful job making OS X play nice with Windows. I have OS X Macs on my office network that share files and printers with PCs running Windows XP and 2000 without any issues whatsoever. Shares on the PC are easily accessed by the Macs and vice versa. The only hitch is the silly “.ds store” files the Macs insist on leaving behind.

It’s a fascinating paradox to me that I find both Jim Everson and Gene Steinberg’s view of Apple vs. M$ to be valid. At one level there has been tremendous competition, like when Jobs/Apple sued Gates/M$ back in the early 1990s; at another level there has been co-operation, like when M$ infused a 150,000,000 dollar investment into Apple in 1996 which it held for five years. And, of course, Microsoft has been making money off of Mac users since the 1980’s through its Mac software division, while Apple is now reaping huge profits off of Windows users through the dissemination Windows versions of iTunes and the iPod.