I would definitely look at the hardware more carefully. That is NOT a known problem with Tiger.

Peace,
Gene

Hi,

no external hardware was connected. The Volume corruption appears after three (or so) months of usage.

Also, some people does not report (two friends of mine gets that Volume data loss) when they are in fault (no backup).

Regards, Emile

There are millions and millions of Tiger users, and only a small number have reported serious problems.

Certainly data loss is not among them.

I think it might be fair to consider other possibilities, such as a peripheral conflict or even a hardware-related issue (RAM, logic board, etc.).

I suggest you have your Mac checked for something other the OS.

Peace,
Gene

Hi Gene,

I consider Tiger as the worst OS Apple ever release and I used a lot of different OSes (Apple II and Macintosh) through the years (1985 – 2007).

How do I install a new OS version ?

Very simple: I made a bask-up of the data, format (low level) the hard disk and install the new OS using the original mass storage hardware (from floppy disk thru DVD).

Since my Apple (France) days, I stopped using add on software (even After Dark, back in 1992).

The only added software was (is):
AppleWorks, Stuffit Expander, VLC, Netscape, FireFox, and REALbasic.

One thing I didn’t tell earlier is my boot hard disk volume failures (three times) with data loss (one folder with three months of data). What helped (no more volume failures / data loss) me was to make two volumes on the integrated hard disk: one for the boot, the second for the data.

My anger comes for all the bugs that are “obvious”: bug every one can fall into after some minutes of Macintosh usage, not really from the data loss (you may say that I have to make backup and you would be right).

Nota: I am living in France and some bugs may comes from the localization (the French version); when I was working at Apple (France), usually, the French version was less buggy than the US one because of the release date difference (the French version was usually release after the US one and sometimes was a corrected version).

Feel free to contact me directly if you want more details (descriptions and screen shots) of the bugs I collected through the years (on the 10.4 family).

Merry Christmas to all,

Emile

First of all, I’m sorry you’ve encountered those problems, but the disconnect here is that many users regard Tiger as the best Mac OS X of all. Frankly, I installed Tiger on the day of its release and never had any serious problems with it on two different PowerPC G5s, two 17-inch PowerBooks and a 17-inch MacBook Pro. One of the Power Macs and one of the PowerBooks have since gone to new owners, and they haven’t complained either.

My son uses and abuses his early-generation PowerBook, running Tiger, and seldom complains about anything.

So we’re left with a situation here where some people report troubles and some don’t.

I would, however, want to know about your 10.4 installation (clean, upgrade?), and about third party products that might have an impact on your situation.

Peace,
Gene

First of all, take into account the delay between the OS major version (say 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 or 10.5) and the minor update that removes “all” (most of all) found bugs.

Then, think at all bugs found in one major version (say 10.4) and still present in the last minor update (here 10.4.11).

I do not talk about obscure bugs, but bugs Joe Newbie is able to encounters.

It is a true shame that nearly 2 and 1/2 years after having seen the lights of day, 10.4 is still in this buggy state. I cannot imagine a worst OS from Apple (from 1985 though 2007)…

That is the reason I didn’t buy 10.5: too many bugs not removed in 10.4 thru 10.4.11 and no hope to get a 10.4.12. I will not waste my money to get 10.5. Eventually, I will get it in a brand new Macintosh laptop in 2008, but I am not confident at all in Apple voluntee to squash the most visible bugs (past proved that).

And I do not talk about the hardware wooes.

PS: I installed 10.4 in a PowerBook G4 15″ Alu on April 30, 2005. In the following days, I found 10, 20, … 100 ? “easy reachable” bugs (Two entries checked in a local popup for example!) and I wasn’t searching them at all.

This hearkens back to the old axiom, “The bitterness of bad quality lasts long after the sweetness of having met the schedule is gone.” Now I don’t mean to suggest that Leopard 10.5.0/1 qualifies as “bad quality,” but this principle is valid nevertheless.

Another quote: “There is always time to do things over but not enough time to do them right.”
Or something like that. Anybody got a better version?

I started to get afraid that there are 2 Leopards truly. One is PPC (especially 64bit/G5) version with some real show stopper bugs and other is Intel version with minor, forgivable bugs.

I don’t expect a perfect Leopard since it was announced 64bit. Especially on my Quad G5, it means first ever pure 64bit kernel and some core parts. It may be the same deal with high end Intel Mac users too. They are getting an 64bit OS which MS couldn’t manage to ship for years while they are actually part of design process at Intel. Vista 64bit is barely called “stable” or “Production ready” while every Quad Xeon etc user out there are happy with their Leopard 64bit.

You can run Disk Warrior on Leopard 10.5.1 ????

Thanks for posting, geniuses.

A person who is enough technical to give up OS’es free tools such as fsck for a high end commercial tool would know not to run it from new major build of OS until Vendor releases an update.

People reporting issues are technical users, not some kind of morons or computer illiterates. This fashion has started with the release of 10.5 , everyone reporting an issue must have been doing something wrong. Wake up, this is a Desktop OS, not even a Server OS. There are no guarantees that it won’t contain any bugs. Nobody is expecting a Mainframe, carrier grade OS.

The issue is, just stop thinking those people reporting issues are some sort of computer newbies. They are not. As result, Apple gets the flame. Every time I report a issue and get flamed by so called Apple fans, I report it again on a separate platform once again.

We don’t expect a desktop OS to be a perfect in first release but some of us had enough with this “You can’t use a computer” attitude. Leopard, Vista are new major builds. One asking for a perfect stable OS are already running Windows XP Pro/ OS X 10.3.9 or even 10.2.8.

Lot of us are forgiving, for example I had to buy an actual FAX device in 2000s just because Apple forgot (yes!) to add their actual, G5 1600 preinstalled modem’s driver to stock 10.4.0. At a later release, it was fixed.

The issue with Leopard is… Core parts of OS does have problem if you have problem.

For example, syslogd will hit 100% on a G5 Quad Core occupying an entire core out of 4 cores while booting into Finder. Now, that is a hassle and of course have been reported to Apple (which they verified). For an average user who won’t watch his/her CPU and if there are no secondary/fourth core to reserve it will mean “Leopard is lot more slow than Tiger”.

I have also verified a OpenGL performance degrade on NV6600 coming with my Quad G5. I have found number as high as 30-40% . I have reported this too, waiting for Apple to either say “Duplicate” (which is good news) or “Closed” (which means, bad..)

Now, these are just 2 bugs but remember, OS X Desktop cleverly uses OpenGL functions to be such responsive (not just games) and syslogd is a OS process, not a incompatible 3rd party product which you can uninstall and subscribe to vendors updates list or something.

I have Boot and Users on separate drives, I used the opportunity to “test clean install” by installing another 10.5(.1) to the drive which only has Users. Unfortunately, that “clean install” magic didn’t work in my case. Well, at least I got another spare boot drive

Tiger issues weren’t such visible because number of VPN users or G5 1600 users with a specific modem weren’t that many. Now, everyone has syslogd running and it becomes big deal if you are hit by that bug, whatever it is. I have also sensed some sign of “133t programming” by removal of console.log and using SQL Query to system.log for console messages. These things may look “cool” on paper or your CV, in real life, you may end up with thousands of needless bug reports which could be prevented by NOT enhancing it.

I didn’t give up and while I have a 10.4.11 in hand to boot, I keep running 10.5.1 to report issues. Now, if you sit there with your OS X Leopard package not opened and waiting for 10.5.2 , you could get disappointed. How can they know problems if you don’t report them?

IMHO keep 10.5.x installed without removing your 10.4.11 , boot into it and use bugreporter.apple.com for issues you see.

Actually, I heard it as a question: “Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough to do it over?”
More appropriate may be what I saw on the wall in software development back in the day. Labeled the 11th commandment of engineering: “The customer will find the bugs quicker than you can: ship it!”
Hence it’s corollary: “Never buy ‘point 0′.”

This hearkens back to the old axiom, “The bitterness of bad quality lasts long after the sweetness of having met the schedule is gone.” Now I don’t mean to suggest that Leopard 10.5.0/1 qualifies as “bad quality,” but this principle is valid nevertheless.

Another quote: “There is always time to do things over but not enough time to do them right.”
Or something like that. Anybody got a better version?

This hearkens back to the old axiom, “The bitterness of bad quality lasts long after the sweetness of having met the schedule is gone.” Now I don’t mean to suggest that Leopard 10.5.0/1 qualifies as “bad quality,” but this principle is valid nevertheless.

You can run Disk Warrior on Leopard 10.5.1 ????

Thanks for posting, geniuses.

Notice that this was listed as PRE-installation. That is, you would have been doing it on 10.4 or earlier.

Personally, I think that Disk Warrior is not required before an install, but I do verify disk and permissions with Apple’s Disk Utility prior to an install. Disk Warrior, for me, is more of an ongoing maintenance thing. Personally I like Drive Genius for this function, but Disk Warrior is good, too.

To answer your question, though, this is a cut and paste from Alsoft’s Disk Warrior web site:

Alsoft recommends that you don’t run DiskWarrior 4.0 while started from Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard. Instead, you should start up from the DiskWarrior CD.

Which translates to yes, you can run Disk Warrior on a 10.5 system, you just don’t want to do it while logged in to 10.5.

You can run Disk Warrior on Leopard 10.5.1 ????

Thanks for posting, geniuses.

“Things weren’t very pleasant in the Apple universe in those days. But we stuck through it anyway.”

Yes we did! I started on a Performa 6300 (Four 15″ monitor, 1 motherboard replacements… all under super secret Apple extended warranty!) with OS 7.5.3. I’ve never run antivirus nor have ever had any problems in that area. I was hounded by my co-workers (PC drones) about my choice of computer from a company “going out of business”, but just sat back and laughed at their continual problems. I have always marveled that PC types really seem to hate their computers and Windows and are genuinely confused that I love mine so much. For a time, I became and evangelist for the Mac, arguing the differences with perhaps sometimes a religious fervor. I spent a good bit of my own time in the North Miami CompUSA (r.i.p.) store-within-a-store helping people learn of and buy Macs. It was hard back then in the “Dark Days”. Hell, I learned to type leaving comments about the Macs on any website that would spread FUD! maybe someone will recognize the name… .

When I later worked at Savannah Air Traffic Control Tower, I was the only one who didn’t know where the PC/Windows guru’s house was… because I never had to go there to have my computer debugged. I first went wireless with the original iBook and Airport. While in Savannah, I watched as the “guru” spent days trying to get his wireless network set up. I never really said a word except that it took me less than 15 minutes. I didn’t say much there about the Mac/PC debate. I brought my 12″ Powerbook (867, then 1.5 GhZ), “Bob” to work everyday and eventually some saw that what I had “just worked”. Before I left a couple of years ago, a quarter of the facility had gone Mac as had some of their parents and siblings. I’m older and not quite as vocal about my choice of computer these days. Who knows, maybe it’s OS X. I started using it on a G4 hemi-iMac and have only ever had 2 kernal panics.

Yeah, Gene, at times it wasn’t pleasant but I would not have missed a moment of it.

P.S.: if this seemed to ramble, I apologize. I have been sick for a day or two and who knows… my brain may not be up to par!