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	<title>Comments on: Be Very Careful About Troubleshooting Sites</title>
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	<link>http://www.technightowl.com/2008/02/be-very-careful-about-troubleshooting-sites/</link>
	<description>Tech Commentaries From Best-Selllng Author Gene Steinberg</description>
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		<title>By: Ilgaz</title>
		<link>http://www.technightowl.com/2008/02/be-very-careful-about-troubleshooting-sites/comment-page-1/#comment-9123</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilgaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.macnightowl.com/2008/02/25/be-very-careful-about-troubleshooting-sites/#comment-9123</guid>
		<description>There are also couple of things I would say as a user who got victimized by &quot;easy fix&quot; offered by many sites.
1) Never downgrade any kernel extension especially if it includes security fixes. REPORT the issue to Apple instead use http://bugreporter.apple.com

2) Never &quot;clean your caches&quot; in aggressive manner. 99.999% there is no point. Responsible developers like Tinker Tool author already says &quot;It is NOT a routine maintenance step&quot;.  Especially on Leopard, every cache even including safari icons db has own checking mechanisms (check hidden .journal while getting written) and while speaking about Journal, we are all running a journaling filesystem which is really resistant to corruption.

3) Instead of using those sites and even Apple discussion forums, first report to Vendor about your issue. If they don&#039;t respond in 48 hours, take a note about it and uninstall, use free &quot;updates mailing lists&quot; etc. offered by them so you will hear when an update ships.

I am getting amazed every day by some support sites. They are even suggesting to downgrade Apple Airport firmware while it is very clear that the actual update has some security fixes which are all made semi public as they were released. I also believe some of those sites have personal, non professional issues with some developers. Lets not name them but everyone figures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/net/safari.png' title='Safari 523.15' style='border:0px;' alt='Safari 523.15'/> <a href='http://www.apple.com/safari/' title='Safari 523.15' rel='nofollow'>Safari 523.15</a>  <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/os/mac.png' title='Mac OS' style='border:0px;' alt='Mac OS'/> Mac OS <p>There are also couple of things I would say as a user who got victimized by &#8220;easy fix&#8221; offered by many sites.<br />
1) Never downgrade any kernel extension especially if it includes security fixes. REPORT the issue to Apple instead use <a href="http://bugreporter.apple.com" rel="nofollow">http://bugreporter.apple.com</a></p>
<p>2) Never &#8220;clean your caches&#8221; in aggressive manner. 99.999% there is no point. Responsible developers like Tinker Tool author already says &#8220;It is NOT a routine maintenance step&#8221;.  Especially on Leopard, every cache even including safari icons db has own checking mechanisms (check hidden .journal while getting written) and while speaking about Journal, we are all running a journaling filesystem which is really resistant to corruption.</p>
<p>3) Instead of using those sites and even Apple discussion forums, first report to Vendor about your issue. If they don&#8217;t respond in 48 hours, take a note about it and uninstall, use free &#8220;updates mailing lists&#8221; etc. offered by them so you will hear when an update ships.</p>
<p>I am getting amazed every day by some support sites. They are even suggesting to downgrade Apple Airport firmware while it is very clear that the actual update has some security fixes which are all made semi public as they were released. I also believe some of those sites have personal, non professional issues with some developers. Lets not name them but everyone figures.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.technightowl.com/2008/02/be-very-careful-about-troubleshooting-sites/comment-page-1/#comment-9117</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.macnightowl.com/2008/02/25/be-very-careful-about-troubleshooting-sites/#comment-9117</guid>
		<description>I just bought a secondhand PowerBook G4 12&quot; for roadtrips, and installed Tiger on it. 

At first, I was going to do a firewire transfer from my iMac, but I thought what the heck, I&#039;ll install Tiger from scratch, put the latest updates on it, and then sync with .Mac to get all my keychains, bookmarks, contacts, etc. With the .Mac sync, even websites that require a password &quot;remember&quot; the password.

I was able to restore a strong semblance of my normal working environment on the PowerBook in less than two hours. Firewire mode might very well have taken as long. With the clean install, this little G4 with 512Mb of memory is just chugging along...fast, snappy, everything just works. No problems with the battery (it&#039;s a two-year old battery and still gives me four hours of untethered time).

So a couple of points: With the right backup strategy, one can install a clean system and restore one&#039;s working environment fairly quickly. Adding update upon update upon update might be problematic after awhile. The other point is that a lot of the problems with Mac OS X that people encounter might be the result of third-party conflicts, poor disk maintenance, or user error, as well. 

Like you Gene, I&#039;ve generally had seamless results with Apple updates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/net/firefox.png' title='Firefox 2.0.0.12' style='border:0px;' alt='Firefox 2.0.0.12'/> <a href='http://mozilla.org' title='Firefox 2.0.0.12' rel='nofollow'>Firefox 2.0.0.12</a>  <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/os/win.png' title='Windows XP' style='border:0px;' alt='Windows XP'/> Windows XP<p>I just bought a secondhand PowerBook G4 12&#8243; for roadtrips, and installed Tiger on it. </p>
<p>At first, I was going to do a firewire transfer from my iMac, but I thought what the heck, I&#8217;ll install Tiger from scratch, put the latest updates on it, and then sync with .Mac to get all my keychains, bookmarks, contacts, etc. With the .Mac sync, even websites that require a password &#8220;remember&#8221; the password.</p>
<p>I was able to restore a strong semblance of my normal working environment on the PowerBook in less than two hours. Firewire mode might very well have taken as long. With the clean install, this little G4 with 512Mb of memory is just chugging along&#8230;fast, snappy, everything just works. No problems with the battery (it&#8217;s a two-year old battery and still gives me four hours of untethered time).</p>
<p>So a couple of points: With the right backup strategy, one can install a clean system and restore one&#8217;s working environment fairly quickly. Adding update upon update upon update might be problematic after awhile. The other point is that a lot of the problems with Mac OS X that people encounter might be the result of third-party conflicts, poor disk maintenance, or user error, as well. </p>
<p>Like you Gene, I&#8217;ve generally had seamless results with Apple updates.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.technightowl.com/2008/02/be-very-careful-about-troubleshooting-sites/comment-page-1/#comment-9116</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.macnightowl.com/2008/02/25/be-very-careful-about-troubleshooting-sites/#comment-9116</guid>
		<description>I agree that MacFixit hasn&#039;t been the same since the CNet takeover. Among other things, the editors have taken to using unecessarily inflammatory headlines.  

You get something along the lines of &quot;Leopard Finder Disaster!&quot;, which, upon closer inspection, turns out to be a report that a small handful of users have written that they&#039;re having Finder problems upon upgrading to Leopard.  Keep reading, and you&#039;ll learn (maybe a day later, if that) that in each case the problem was a conflict with some third-party &quot;enhancement&quot; software that hasn&#039;t yet been updated for Leopard compatibility.  Some disaster.

My example was made-up, but you get the idea.  This sort of thing has always been a problem with MacFixit, in my view (for many of the reasons you discuss in your article), but it seems to have gotten worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/net/safari.png' title='Safari 523.15' style='border:0px;' alt='Safari 523.15'/> <a href='http://www.apple.com/safari/' title='Safari 523.15' rel='nofollow'>Safari 523.15</a>  <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/os/mac.png' title='Mac OS' style='border:0px;' alt='Mac OS'/> Mac OS <p>I agree that MacFixit hasn&#8217;t been the same since the CNet takeover. Among other things, the editors have taken to using unecessarily inflammatory headlines.  </p>
<p>You get something along the lines of &#8220;Leopard Finder Disaster!&#8221;, which, upon closer inspection, turns out to be a report that a small handful of users have written that they&#8217;re having Finder problems upon upgrading to Leopard.  Keep reading, and you&#8217;ll learn (maybe a day later, if that) that in each case the problem was a conflict with some third-party &#8220;enhancement&#8221; software that hasn&#8217;t yet been updated for Leopard compatibility.  Some disaster.</p>
<p>My example was made-up, but you get the idea.  This sort of thing has always been a problem with MacFixit, in my view (for many of the reasons you discuss in your article), but it seems to have gotten worse.</p>
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		<title>By: gopher</title>
		<link>http://www.technightowl.com/2008/02/be-very-careful-about-troubleshooting-sites/comment-page-1/#comment-9115</link>
		<dc:creator>gopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.macnightowl.com/2008/02/25/be-very-careful-about-troubleshooting-sites/#comment-9115</guid>
		<description>As a troubleshooter on Apple&#039;s Discussions group, I commend you for writing this article.   As many of the more seasoned posters there have noted, it is a &quot;hospital ward.&quot;   One thing to keep in mind is that number of views on a thread does not give any indication of the number of posters visiting the site, and the number of replies can be from the same person.  Thus the numbers themselves are skewed on the high side.    At one time Apple did allow you to list all the posters of a paricular thread under the thread title.  No more.  With 5 million purchases of Leopard in one calendar quarter you can really see that the problems in question only affect one tenth of one percent of the population, or only that number finds the board and is able to post the problem.   To get a glimpse of the true numbers, joining a Mac usergroup which has a troubleshooting clinic can often give you a better indication of the size of problems.  http://www.apple.com/usergroups/  

So in essence, it helps if you go to these boards with an open mind, and try to resolve your issue, and not blame anyone.  Those who blame will be less likely to get any help whatsoever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/net/ie.png' title='Internet Explorer 6.0' style='border:0px;' alt='Internet Explorer 6.0'/> <a href='http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/default.mspx' title='Internet Explorer 6.0' rel='nofollow'>Internet Explorer 6.0</a>  <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/os/win.png' title='Windows XP' style='border:0px;' alt='Windows XP'/> Windows XP<p>As a troubleshooter on Apple&#8217;s Discussions group, I commend you for writing this article.   As many of the more seasoned posters there have noted, it is a &#8220;hospital ward.&#8221;   One thing to keep in mind is that number of views on a thread does not give any indication of the number of posters visiting the site, and the number of replies can be from the same person.  Thus the numbers themselves are skewed on the high side.    At one time Apple did allow you to list all the posters of a paricular thread under the thread title.  No more.  With 5 million purchases of Leopard in one calendar quarter you can really see that the problems in question only affect one tenth of one percent of the population, or only that number finds the board and is able to post the problem.   To get a glimpse of the true numbers, joining a Mac usergroup which has a troubleshooting clinic can often give you a better indication of the size of problems.  <a href="http://www.apple.com/usergroups/" rel="nofollow">http://www.apple.com/usergroups/</a>  </p>
<p>So in essence, it helps if you go to these boards with an open mind, and try to resolve your issue, and not blame anyone.  Those who blame will be less likely to get any help whatsoever.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.technightowl.com/2008/02/be-very-careful-about-troubleshooting-sites/comment-page-1/#comment-9104</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 05:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.macnightowl.com/2008/02/25/be-very-careful-about-troubleshooting-sites/#comment-9104</guid>
		<description>Some problems are, however, quite real, and deserve the public attention they get.  I had a Toshiba laptop that had a proprietary hard drive controller that worked great, unless trying to play video in iTunes or QuickTime and running Vista.  It took about 6 months for Toshiba to identify and correct the problem, something that would probably not have occurred if not for the very loud complaints on troubleshooting sites belonging to all three players (Toshiba, Microsoft and Apple).

Apple is usually among the best at responding to issues, but that means little if your machine is the one with problems.  The initial run of MacBooks had issues, and while I am certain that there are many happy owners who got trouble-free machines, I had mine replaced three times (random shutdown, extreme heat, warped plastics) before giving up on the model for 18 months.  Apple made good and replaced each defective machine, and when it once again became time for a new laptop last month, I didn&#039;t hesitate to buy a new MacBook knowing that those early issues were fixed long ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/net/safari.png' title='Safari 523.15' style='border:0px;' alt='Safari 523.15'/> <a href='http://www.apple.com/safari/' title='Safari 523.15' rel='nofollow'>Safari 523.15</a>  <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/os/mac.png' title='Mac OS' style='border:0px;' alt='Mac OS'/> Mac OS <p>Some problems are, however, quite real, and deserve the public attention they get.  I had a Toshiba laptop that had a proprietary hard drive controller that worked great, unless trying to play video in iTunes or QuickTime and running Vista.  It took about 6 months for Toshiba to identify and correct the problem, something that would probably not have occurred if not for the very loud complaints on troubleshooting sites belonging to all three players (Toshiba, Microsoft and Apple).</p>
<p>Apple is usually among the best at responding to issues, but that means little if your machine is the one with problems.  The initial run of MacBooks had issues, and while I am certain that there are many happy owners who got trouble-free machines, I had mine replaced three times (random shutdown, extreme heat, warped plastics) before giving up on the model for 18 months.  Apple made good and replaced each defective machine, and when it once again became time for a new laptop last month, I didn&#8217;t hesitate to buy a new MacBook knowing that those early issues were fixed long ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Loweded Wookie</title>
		<link>http://www.technightowl.com/2008/02/be-very-careful-about-troubleshooting-sites/comment-page-1/#comment-9103</link>
		<dc:creator>Loweded Wookie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.macnightowl.com/2008/02/25/be-very-careful-about-troubleshooting-sites/#comment-9103</guid>
		<description>Well said. Unfortunately this world is geared for condemnation rather than commendation.

For those of you reading this I work in IT as a hardware engineer and I can assure you that your problem may take time to fix. Not all problems are easy to suss and it may take a while for someone to come across a solution. You&#039;re frustration is understandable but bad mouthing because something is taking a while to get sorted isn&#039;t going to help anyone.

If it is so easy to fix then why haven&#039;t you done it and instead taken your machine to someone to get fixed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/net/firefox.png' title='Firefox 3.0b3' style='border:0px;' alt='Firefox 3.0b3'/> <a href='http://mozilla.org' title='Firefox 3.0b3' rel='nofollow'>Firefox 3.0b3</a>  <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/os/win.png' title='Windows XP' style='border:0px;' alt='Windows XP'/> Windows XP<p>Well said. Unfortunately this world is geared for condemnation rather than commendation.</p>
<p>For those of you reading this I work in IT as a hardware engineer and I can assure you that your problem may take time to fix. Not all problems are easy to suss and it may take a while for someone to come across a solution. You&#8217;re frustration is understandable but bad mouthing because something is taking a while to get sorted isn&#8217;t going to help anyone.</p>
<p>If it is so easy to fix then why haven&#8217;t you done it and instead taken your machine to someone to get fixed?</p>
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