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	<title>Comments on: Do Browser Wars Make Sense?</title>
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	<link>http://www.technightowl.com/2008/04/do-browser-wars-make-sense/</link>
	<description>Tech Commentaries From Best-Selllng Author Gene Steinberg</description>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.technightowl.com/2008/04/do-browser-wars-make-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-10514</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 17:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.macnightowl.com/?p=915#comment-10514</guid>
		<description>Apropos Adobe AIR, Gene, I just saw this:

http://www.macworld.com/article/132907/2008/04/ampfirstlook.html

Mac world says: &quot;And the fact that itâ€™s cross-platform compatible is a boon for Mac users, who wonâ€™t be left out of the mix.&quot;

A boon for Mac users perhaps, but perhaps not so much of a one for Apple -- if it does take off.  And, if it does, one wonders where that leaves the phone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/net/safari.png' title='Safari 525.13' style='border:0px;' alt='Safari 525.13'/> <a href='http://www.apple.com/safari/' title='Safari 525.13' rel='nofollow'>Safari 525.13</a>  <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/os/mac.png' title='Mac OS' style='border:0px;' alt='Mac OS'/> Mac OS <p>Apropos Adobe AIR, Gene, I just saw this:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.macworld.com/article/132907/2008/04/ampfirstlook.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.macworld.com/article/132907/2008/04/ampfirstlook.html</a></p>
<p>Mac world says: &#8220;And the fact that itâ€™s cross-platform compatible is a boon for Mac users, who wonâ€™t be left out of the mix.&#8221;</p>
<p>A boon for Mac users perhaps, but perhaps not so much of a one for Apple &#8212; if it does take off.  And, if it does, one wonders where that leaves the phone.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.technightowl.com/2008/04/do-browser-wars-make-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-10512</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.macnightowl.com/?p=915#comment-10512</guid>
		<description>Quick thought -
Browsers drive revenue, revenue drives competition, from competition &lt;i&gt;should&lt;/i&gt; come improvement and innovation.  

If this holds true, and I think most of it does most of the time, then the browser wars ultimately give us better browsers.  Example: If Apple didn&#039;t need to compete with Firefox, Camino, Opera, Omniweb, et al... would the gang in Cupertino have bothered with a tabbed interface?  If not for the revenue inspired browser wars, maybe not.  Have you used tabs in Terminal?  Were it not for the browser showing off how handy this is would that innovation occurred, or occurred at this point in time?

One of the things I have always loved about my Macs is Apple innovation (OK, maybe not so much in the sans-Steve era).  As long as the browser wars help to drive innovation, I am all for it!

Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/net/safari.png' title='Safari 525.13' style='border:0px;' alt='Safari 525.13'/> <a href='http://www.apple.com/safari/' title='Safari 525.13' rel='nofollow'>Safari 525.13</a>  <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/os/mac.png' title='Mac OS' style='border:0px;' alt='Mac OS'/> Mac OS <p>Quick thought -<br />
Browsers drive revenue, revenue drives competition, from competition <i>should</i> come improvement and innovation.  </p>
<p>If this holds true, and I think most of it does most of the time, then the browser wars ultimately give us better browsers.  Example: If Apple didn&#8217;t need to compete with Firefox, Camino, Opera, Omniweb, et al&#8230; would the gang in Cupertino have bothered with a tabbed interface?  If not for the revenue inspired browser wars, maybe not.  Have you used tabs in Terminal?  Were it not for the browser showing off how handy this is would that innovation occurred, or occurred at this point in time?</p>
<p>One of the things I have always loved about my Macs is Apple innovation (OK, maybe not so much in the sans-Steve era).  As long as the browser wars help to drive innovation, I am all for it!</p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
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		<title>By: Gene Steinberg</title>
		<link>http://www.technightowl.com/2008/04/do-browser-wars-make-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-10510</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene Steinberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.macnightowl.com/?p=915#comment-10510</guid>
		<description>I appreciate your viewpoints and the time you clearly spent fleshing this out.

Peace,
Gene</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/net/safari.png' title='Safari 525.16' style='border:0px;' alt='Safari 525.16'/> <a href='http://www.apple.com/safari/' title='Safari 525.16' rel='nofollow'>Safari 525.16</a>  <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/os/mac.png' title='Mac OS' style='border:0px;' alt='Mac OS'/> Mac OS <p>I appreciate your viewpoints and the time you clearly spent fleshing this out.</p>
<p>Peace,<br />
Gene</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.technightowl.com/2008/04/do-browser-wars-make-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-10506</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.macnightowl.com/?p=915#comment-10506</guid>
		<description>I think Microsoft thought a &quot;browser war&quot; made sense.  Likewise, its current bid for Yahoo might be seen as a gambit in a &quot;search war&quot; with Google.  He who gets search (and other online services) gets the advertising revenue.

I think Joel Spolsky is enlightening on the browser war.  There&#039;s an old article of his &quot;How Microsoft Lost the API War&quot;:

&quot;The cornerstone of Microsoft&#039;s monopoly power and incredibly profitable Windows and Office franchises, which account for virtually all of Microsoft&#039;s income and covers up a huge array of unprofitable or marginally profitable product lines, the Windows API  is no longer of much interest to developers. The goose that lays the golden eggs is not quite dead, but it does have a terminal disease, one that nobody noticed yet&quot;

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html

The point here is that for some time developers have been moving to the web.  Microsoft thought they couldn&#039;t afford for Netscape to own the browser market, because then everything runs in the Netscape browser and not on the Windows API, and whether you were &quot;compatible&quot; with the Netscape browser and its &quot;extensions&quot; to HTML would be the important thing.  And, of course, it wouldn&#039;t even matter what OS your browser was running on.  That would have put Netscape firmly in the driving seat.  Microsoft spent millions -- correction, billions -- averting that.  (Similarly it&#039;ll spend billions trying to &quot;kill&quot; Google -- cue chair-throwing jokes.)

Spolsky even seems to suggest that, after killing Netscape, Microsoft *deliberately* neglected IE -- that they didn&#039;t do it out of negligence, but to retard web applications and make sure that people continued to use local applications, which is where they currently make their money:

&quot;Which means, suddenly, Microsoft&#039;s API doesn&#039;t matter so much. Web applications don&#039;t require Windows.

It&#039;s not that Microsoft didn&#039;t notice this was happening. Of course they did, and when the implications became clear, they slammed on the brakes. Promising new technologies like HTAs and DHTML were stopped in their tracks. The Internet Explorer team seems to have disappeared; they have been completely missing in action for several years.&quot;

Why they killed Netscape is obvious enough.  I don&#039;t know about the latter bit -- that IE&#039;s stagnation was deliberate.  Are Redmond that deep?  But from Spolsky, who is usually over-kind to Microsoft, that&#039;s one worth thinking about.  In any event, not keeping IE up-to-date seems to have backfired for Microsoft, thanks to Netscape (reborn as Mozilla), Opera, and Safari.  Now developers code for Firefox/Opera/Safari, which have all converged on the standards and have to add ugly hacks after the fact just to make their code work in IE.  Unsurprisingly, they resent this.

Nowadays?  Yeah, there&#039;s a war on.  Microsoft let IE for Mac lag behind IE for Windows.  Apple *had* to start the Safari project, so that people who bought Apple machines could be certain of getting on the web and using modern web-based services without relying on any third-party.  It was a survival thing for them.

The other two dimensions to throw into the mix now are (1) technologies other than open standards-based technologies, and (2) the mobile web.

First, there are ongoing attempts by Adobe to move people off web apps that use HTML/CSS/JavaScript and onto their own Flash and AIR technology -- and Microsoft is attempting to do the same with Silverlight.  (And, I guess, there&#039;s Sun and what they&#039;d like people to do with Java.)

Secondly, there&#039;s a new market here with customers wanting to browse the web on devices like the iPhone.  Apple&#039;s got a good foot in the door with the mobile version of Safari -- currently, the most-used browser on mobile devices in the U.S. -- and wants the web to remain usable with mobile Safari.  As far as I can see, the best way for Apple to protect its position is for it to get as many people as possible -- and that includes Windows users -- using its browser.  That way web developers have to take Safari into account and have to make sure their sites work with it.  That way the iPhone remains attractive.  Next best is if Firefox increases its market share, since Mozilla (unlike Netscape) is pursuing a standards-based policy.  And I&#039;d have thought from Apple&#039;s point of view it&#039;s good if Firefox continues to eat IE&#039;s markets share.  Still, surely better not to have to rely on third-parties too much.

Moreover, it&#039;s not just compatibility with every site&#039;s HTML/CSS/JavaScript.  If web developers move off standards-based technologies and onto Flash or Silverlight -- a possibility I already pointed to -- well, desktop/laptop users can get those easily enough, but these technologies aren&#039;t going to work well on a handheld device.  Besides, someone else controls them and could leverage their position to damage Apple if they so chose.  (The update for Silverlight for the iPhone has been unavoidably delayed -- that kind of thing.)

I think a browser war is very much on.  Hence the fact that the Safari box comes pre-ticked on the Apple Updater for Windows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/net/safari.png' title='Safari 525.13' style='border:0px;' alt='Safari 525.13'/> <a href='http://www.apple.com/safari/' title='Safari 525.13' rel='nofollow'>Safari 525.13</a>  <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/os/mac.png' title='Mac OS' style='border:0px;' alt='Mac OS'/> Mac OS <p>I think Microsoft thought a &#8220;browser war&#8221; made sense.  Likewise, its current bid for Yahoo might be seen as a gambit in a &#8220;search war&#8221; with Google.  He who gets search (and other online services) gets the advertising revenue.</p>
<p>I think Joel Spolsky is enlightening on the browser war.  There&#8217;s an old article of his &#8220;How Microsoft Lost the API War&#8221;:</p>
<p>&#8220;The cornerstone of Microsoft&#8217;s monopoly power and incredibly profitable Windows and Office franchises, which account for virtually all of Microsoft&#8217;s income and covers up a huge array of unprofitable or marginally profitable product lines, the Windows API  is no longer of much interest to developers. The goose that lays the golden eggs is not quite dead, but it does have a terminal disease, one that nobody noticed yet&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html</a></p>
<p>The point here is that for some time developers have been moving to the web.  Microsoft thought they couldn&#8217;t afford for Netscape to own the browser market, because then everything runs in the Netscape browser and not on the Windows API, and whether you were &#8220;compatible&#8221; with the Netscape browser and its &#8220;extensions&#8221; to HTML would be the important thing.  And, of course, it wouldn&#8217;t even matter what OS your browser was running on.  That would have put Netscape firmly in the driving seat.  Microsoft spent millions &#8212; correction, billions &#8212; averting that.  (Similarly it&#8217;ll spend billions trying to &#8220;kill&#8221; Google &#8212; cue chair-throwing jokes.)</p>
<p>Spolsky even seems to suggest that, after killing Netscape, Microsoft *deliberately* neglected IE &#8212; that they didn&#8217;t do it out of negligence, but to retard web applications and make sure that people continued to use local applications, which is where they currently make their money:</p>
<p>&#8220;Which means, suddenly, Microsoft&#8217;s API doesn&#8217;t matter so much. Web applications don&#8217;t require Windows.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that Microsoft didn&#8217;t notice this was happening. Of course they did, and when the implications became clear, they slammed on the brakes. Promising new technologies like HTAs and DHTML were stopped in their tracks. The Internet Explorer team seems to have disappeared; they have been completely missing in action for several years.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why they killed Netscape is obvious enough.  I don&#8217;t know about the latter bit &#8212; that IE&#8217;s stagnation was deliberate.  Are Redmond that deep?  But from Spolsky, who is usually over-kind to Microsoft, that&#8217;s one worth thinking about.  In any event, not keeping IE up-to-date seems to have backfired for Microsoft, thanks to Netscape (reborn as Mozilla), Opera, and Safari.  Now developers code for Firefox/Opera/Safari, which have all converged on the standards and have to add ugly hacks after the fact just to make their code work in IE.  Unsurprisingly, they resent this.</p>
<p>Nowadays?  Yeah, there&#8217;s a war on.  Microsoft let IE for Mac lag behind IE for Windows.  Apple *had* to start the Safari project, so that people who bought Apple machines could be certain of getting on the web and using modern web-based services without relying on any third-party.  It was a survival thing for them.</p>
<p>The other two dimensions to throw into the mix now are (1) technologies other than open standards-based technologies, and (2) the mobile web.</p>
<p>First, there are ongoing attempts by Adobe to move people off web apps that use HTML/CSS/JavaScript and onto their own Flash and AIR technology &#8212; and Microsoft is attempting to do the same with Silverlight.  (And, I guess, there&#8217;s Sun and what they&#8217;d like people to do with Java.)</p>
<p>Secondly, there&#8217;s a new market here with customers wanting to browse the web on devices like the iPhone.  Apple&#8217;s got a good foot in the door with the mobile version of Safari &#8212; currently, the most-used browser on mobile devices in the U.S. &#8212; and wants the web to remain usable with mobile Safari.  As far as I can see, the best way for Apple to protect its position is for it to get as many people as possible &#8212; and that includes Windows users &#8212; using its browser.  That way web developers have to take Safari into account and have to make sure their sites work with it.  That way the iPhone remains attractive.  Next best is if Firefox increases its market share, since Mozilla (unlike Netscape) is pursuing a standards-based policy.  And I&#8217;d have thought from Apple&#8217;s point of view it&#8217;s good if Firefox continues to eat IE&#8217;s markets share.  Still, surely better not to have to rely on third-parties too much.</p>
<p>Moreover, it&#8217;s not just compatibility with every site&#8217;s HTML/CSS/JavaScript.  If web developers move off standards-based technologies and onto Flash or Silverlight &#8212; a possibility I already pointed to &#8212; well, desktop/laptop users can get those easily enough, but these technologies aren&#8217;t going to work well on a handheld device.  Besides, someone else controls them and could leverage their position to damage Apple if they so chose.  (The update for Silverlight for the iPhone has been unavoidably delayed &#8212; that kind of thing.)</p>
<p>I think a browser war is very much on.  Hence the fact that the Safari box comes pre-ticked on the Apple Updater for Windows.</p>
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		<title>By: Gene Steinberg</title>
		<link>http://www.technightowl.com/2008/04/do-browser-wars-make-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-10494</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene Steinberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 09:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.macnightowl.com/?p=915#comment-10494</guid>
		<description>Well now they seem to want to make Internet Explorer 8 adhere to standards, at least with a specific setting. And they call that &quot;innovation.&quot;

Peace,
Gene

From my 24/7 iPhone</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/net/safari.png' title='Safari 419.3' style='border:0px;' alt='Safari 419.3'/> <a href='http://www.apple.com/safari/' title='Safari 419.3' rel='nofollow'>Safari 419.3</a>  <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/os/mac.png' title='Mac OS' style='border:0px;' alt='Mac OS'/> Mac OS <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/dev/iphone.png' title='iPhone' style='border:0px;' alt='iPhone'/><p>Well now they seem to want to make Internet Explorer 8 adhere to standards, at least with a specific setting. And they call that &#8220;innovation.&#8221;</p>
<p>Peace,<br />
Gene</p>
<p>From my 24/7 iPhone</p>
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		<title>By: Dana Sutton</title>
		<link>http://www.technightowl.com/2008/04/do-browser-wars-make-sense/comment-page-1/#comment-10491</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana Sutton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 07:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.macnightowl.com/?p=915#comment-10491</guid>
		<description>&quot;Why would a company spend big dollars developing software that is being given away? &quot; Income from placement of search engines such as Google is one answer. But why does MS insist on using its own proprietary code for Web design rather than adhering to industrywide standards, and put out a browser that&#039;s tied in with this code? The conventional answer is that this has to do with selling MS software that adheres to this same proprietary code. But I&#039;m not a hundred percent convinced this is true. What software? Front Page? FP scarcely seems a biggie in the MS lineup (they appear to agree, since they haven&#039;t bothered updating it for the past five years). It&#039;s a lot less than clear to me what economic advantage their policy is designed to protect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[ <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/net/safari.png' title='Safari 525.13' style='border:0px;' alt='Safari 525.13'/> <a href='http://www.apple.com/safari/' title='Safari 525.13' rel='nofollow'>Safari 525.13</a>  <img src='http://www.technightowl.com/wp-content/plugins/useragent-spy/img/16/os/mac.png' title='Mac OS' style='border:0px;' alt='Mac OS'/> Mac OS <p>&#8220;Why would a company spend big dollars developing software that is being given away? &#8221; Income from placement of search engines such as Google is one answer. But why does MS insist on using its own proprietary code for Web design rather than adhering to industrywide standards, and put out a browser that&#8217;s tied in with this code? The conventional answer is that this has to do with selling MS software that adheres to this same proprietary code. But I&#8217;m not a hundred percent convinced this is true. What software? Front Page? FP scarcely seems a biggie in the MS lineup (they appear to agree, since they haven&#8217;t bothered updating it for the past five years). It&#8217;s a lot less than clear to me what economic advantage their policy is designed to protect.</p>
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